Burts AIS, osCommerce & More Blog
New URL: www.osworld.biz

Friday, September 09, 2005

When is Open Source not Open ?

Q. When is Open Source not Open ? A. When it's osCommerce. I just tried to download the latest version of osCommerce (MS3) - only to find that it is unavailable. OK, so that doesn't make it closed source, but even so... The problem is that the "team" are talking about MS3 openly on the Forum and in their Blogs, and yet there is a rule that says that anything that is discussed must be freely available. And yet, MS3 is not freely available. Now, if anyone else was to talk about XYZ (not freely available) code, they'd be censored or even banned from the Forum. Another example of the Double Standards applied by the Monkeys @ osCommerce.

New URL: www.osworld.biz - thanks!

18 Comments:

At 9/09/2005 02:13:00 PM, Anonymous Achim said...

Hi Burt,

I totally agree with you about oscommerce. The 'team' has time to meet in belgium, they have even time to put ridiculous postings and pictures in their blogs but they don't have time to update the summary progress or even post some words about their meeting. Any members posting critics about this behaviour are banned from the forums like Chemo who always helped other members ..... Quo vadis osCommerce ? Now they closed the public cvs. Why ? Well the only thing I can think of is that the community members don't see that there is NO progress !! Very sad situation :-(

 
At 9/09/2005 03:02:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

For someone who by his posts is working "full time" on the project I often wonder WTF Harald does all day?
The ONLY thing that keeps osc where it is are the contributions.

 
At 9/09/2005 06:58:00 PM, Anonymous boo said...

the sooner 'project x' becomes available the better. Anyone got any idea of timescales for release yet?

 
At 9/11/2005 05:36:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

their just taking people for a ride, for example, work board entries mysteriously appear that were not there previously...

A school kid could achieve more in less time that is currently being taken by the team.

 
At 9/11/2005 10:20:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I kind of admire Harolds laid back approach to things.
A lot of people want to take osCommerce in a lot of directions and you can make a good case for most of those I bet.

Fact is that is as often said, if you feel strongly enough about it you can go take the source and develop your own path.

Don't confuse Open Source with Ownership.

 
At 9/11/2005 10:39:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The problem is that the source code is not publically available.

 
At 9/12/2005 12:50:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is nothing admirable about it.

 
At 9/12/2005 03:00:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

There is a difference between running an open source project for the sake of 'development' or for the sake of financial 'gain'.

Given the directions and limitations within the "oscommerce" project, which is "sponsored" by those that provide free resouces to open source "development", there is, or should be a clear definition of what "development" entails in order to be eligible for these so called open source projects to freely utilize the resources of sponsors such as sourceforge.

How much of the oscommerce sponsorship program is actually donating back to sourceforge.net ?

 
At 9/17/2005 01:30:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"The problem is that the source code is not publically available."

Sigh.
Yes, don't let the facts get in the way of a good rant.

Still that type of comment has its funny side.

 
At 9/17/2005 01:51:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

[Quote] "How much of the oscommerce sponsorship program is actually donating back to sourceforge.net ? "

Its interesting what a lot of sh## err, spurious arguments people can draw up to (presumably) beat up on Harold because they don't like the control he has over his own project.

Get used to the fact that osCommerce plows its own path at its own rate.

I bet every one would like to see it develop at a much faster rate and I'm sure we all have our own particular requirements we want to see "main streamed" in to the core scripts.

We can ask for that, we have no right to expect it to happen.

I personally think it's overall a good thing that Harold hasn't bent to the whims of every Ego Maniac that wants to steer osCommerce in one direction or another.

But I would like to see development speed up - LOL.

 
At 9/17/2005 09:14:00 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The project is all about open source, what is `open` about not being able to view/download the new code?

 
At 9/18/2005 03:09:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

QUOTE [The project is all about open source, what is `open` about not being able to view/download the new code?]

The "new" code will be fully "open" when the developers judge it to be ready for use.
That's their call and entirely within the GPL terms they operate under.
Stop whining and go do something positive instead ;-)

 
At 9/18/2005 04:48:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Although that is good advice, one might as well said, go find or start another project.

Its bemusing that it is the community being considered unrealistic.

Just a sad situation all round.

 
At 9/18/2005 06:38:00 PM, Blogger Gary B. said...

Nice conversation. My original point was more to do with the posted rules on the osCommerce site:

"Any code being talked about must be GPL and freely available."

The GPL gives the freedom to not distribute, but the posted rules about the site and Forum state clearly that anyone discussing code that is not freely available will be censored or banned.

I cannot reconcile why the rules are invoked for one group of people but not the other.

By the way, why don't all you "anonymous" people use your name (or even just a nickname). It is hard to see who has said what in reply to whom. Thanks.

 
At 9/20/2005 02:01:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

HI Gary,

I take it osc closed you blog there?!?

It's really odd situation with osc in that it is a highly commercial product - you can't really get much more commercial than supplying software/scripts to sell goods online - but it's run by a bunch of dreamy hippy idealists.

A commercial outfit wouldn't have made it open source for a start. And I don't see how HDP can earn enough to support himself fulltime on the project - which hasn't moved on in years now.

So when's your osc crusher coming out?

Cheers

Paul B

 
At 9/21/2005 01:58:00 PM, Blogger Gary B. said...

Yeah, they closed my Blog. But only because Harald has a personal issue against me (I am still unaware what it is - all my emails to find out why get ignored).

I did not want to continue to personally sponsor the osCommerce Forum if Harald had (has) a problem with that.

Watch out for an announcement about the new Cart.

 
At 9/23/2005 11:59:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Yeah, they closed my Blog. But only because Harald has a personal issue against me (I am still unaware what it is - all my emails to find out why get ignored).
"

Only a guess but might it have something to do with the [subtle] links to your commercial projects?
And no I'm not a oscommerce "team" member.
But I did notice some of your blog comments straying a bit wide of the narrow non-commercial content rules.

[So Sue me!] <---- My ID

 
At 9/24/2005 07:02:00 AM, Blogger Gary B. said...

"So Sue Me" :D

No, I think that is not the case - I never once mentioned either of my osCommerce commercial projects in that blog. In fact I never have on osCommerce anywhere that is not allowed!

What I did mention in that blog was one of my other commercial projects - my T-Shirt shop. This was removed by one of the moderators. When I asked Harald why, he could not give a reason and actually extended my personal sponsorship by an extra month as a way of saying sorry!

So I *think* this is not the case.

 

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